Sua SponteMy law school odyssey: the ongoing narrative.
See also T-FAQ part 1, part 2, part 3.
Is it possible to transfer from a Tier III/IV to a Tier I school?
JD2B showed me the way to this page, which unfortunately seems to have disappeared since I first read it. It was the story of a law student who transferred from Thomas Cooley to Boston College. (There are graduation pictures still live on the site, although I'm not sure which person in the pictures was the author of the page.) I have no reason to believe that this was not a true story. It can be done.
(Update: here is a cached version of the Cooley-BC transfer page.)
What do I have to do to transfer schools?
The application process is, unfortunately, just as intense as when you applied to law school as a 1L. Get ready to redo all those forms, pay all those fees (note: "embedded applicant" Jane reports that Berkeley and Columbia offer fee waivers; be sure to check if your target school does as well), order lots of sealed transcripts, write a whole new personal statement, re-establish your fond relationship with LSDAS...
...and request all-new letters of recommendation.
Letters of recommendation are perhaps the touchiest part of your transfer application: you really do need them from professors at your current law school, but you may feel awkward telling a professor that you intend to leave that school. (You'll have to get a good-standing statement from your school's records office, so it's impossible to hide your intent to leave altogether; still, that's usually less personal than confronting an actual professor with the news.)
My mentor, a law professor himself, gave me this advice: professors have no emotional ties to their school-employers, and are flattered and honored to be asked for a recommendation. "They understand that the best students are going to want to try to transfer," he told me. I found this to be more or less true when I requested my recommendations. Professors may try to guilt you into staying, but at the end of the day, they will understand your reasons for leaving and support you.
Of course, you'll need to make those reasons clear. Your potential recommenders, just like everyone else, will ask you The Question: why do you want to transfer? Answer candidly, honestly, and as completely as you can. Remember Rule #1 -- no badmouthing your current school. And in this case, I'd counsel adopting my personal Rule #2: don't lie. If your recommenders ask where you are applying to transfer, tell them. You can be vague -- by naming only your target cities, for example -- but be honest.
One of my recommenders called my bluff and asked me if I was applying to transfer to a particular school. I was requesting that this professor take the time to write a letter speaking well of me; I couldn't respond with a lie. "Yes, I am," I said, and then added, "Why wouldn't I? It's all about options. We'll see what options we have, and where we wind up." This was my primary reason for transferring; an honest recital of yours, untainted by hollow elitism or negativity toward your current school, will serve you just as well.
Tip: give your recommenders the LSAC recommendation form rather than handing them a stack of individual school forms. They are busy people, and they are doing you a favor. Don't make a ton of unnecessary work for them. The LSAC form plus a generic letter is perfectly sufficient at most schools. It's far more important that your personal statement be school-specific than your letters of recommendation. Having your letters of recommendation on file at LSDAS is also helpful in the event that you decide to apply to additional schools after you've already solicited your recommendations. It's easier for everyone involved, and you're paying for LSDAS anyway; why not get your money's worth?
Where should I apply to transfer?
Short answer: anywhere and everywhere you want. Remember, not applying = rejection ex ante.
Longer answer: Law schools exist to serve a certain market. In the vast majority of accredited law schools (and 100% of unaccredited ones), that market is the surrounding region. The total surface area of that region will vary according to the reach of the school; a local school will place most of its graduates very close to campus, a regional school will send its alumni somewhat further afield, and graduates of a national school will be found throughout the country and overseas. There are also "semi-national" schools: these are generally regional in character, but also place a significant number of alumni outside the home region.
Your choice of target schools should depend a good deal on where you ultimately wish to work. In many cases, you'll be better off at a strong regional school than a higher-ranked "semi-national" school that doesn't place as well in your desired area. Talk to the career services offices at your target schools. Find out how many of their graduates in any given year end up working in your desired area. Did they find those jobs through on-campus interviewing or on their own?
Compare the firms, government entities, etc. that recruit at your "semi-national" target school with those at your regional target school. You may well find that your career goals would be better served by a lower-ranked school with stronger local placement than a school with a higher USNWR number that won't take you all the way home.
Forthcoming: open to questions.
thus spake /jca @ April 21, 2004 06:35 PMI transferred from a Tier 3 school (arguably) at the bottom of the third tier into a school in the 1st Tier. I was also admitted into another 1st Tier law school that was closer to the top 10, but chose not to go to it for personal reasons. It can be done.
My suggestions: do well academically - there's no getting around that, have fantastic letters of rec from your 1L profs (at least 2, if you can 3), show you've done your h.w. and researched the school(s) you're applying to and why they're the best for you, and most importantly, FOLLOW JCA'S ADVICE!
Here's a little more hope: my undergrad GPA was terrible. I got into schools as a transfer that I couldn't have dreamed or hoped of getting in to my first time around, and I know others like me who did the same!
Posted by: m.s. at April 21, 2004 08:28 PMthere's no way around getting good grades. i'm thinking of transfering, and did solid (B+s and a B) and i've been working my butt off...what's going to get me over that B+ hump to get into A territory? Anybody have any practical advice - not know your stuff, etc etc.
thanks a bunch!
Well, I only have 2 grades in law school so far and one of them is an A so I'll just say this: having outlines done before the term is over, making checklists/flowcharts using old exams and your outline, and analyzing issues from every party's perspective really helps. Oh, and it's good to remember that the points are in the ambiguities... the class that I got a B in, I didn't make flow charts and as a result I missed a significant issue that I would have caught near the end of my analysis if I had made a flow chart/checklist before-hand...
Posted by: AlfDaBruin at April 22, 2004 06:52 PMThank you for another very informative post.
Could you also please talk about the timeline for transfers (e.g. when do you find out if you got in, how much time did you get before bidding for on-campus interviews, how much time to find housing)? Also, re: class selection, were most interesting classes filled by the time you got in? Finally, some thoughts on crafting a persuasive transfer personal statement would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Posted by: AW at April 22, 2004 07:15 PMThanks for the informative info. i am applying to my alma mater (currently i'm in tier 2, alma mater is top 10) so realistically i'm not really expecting to get in. however, my reasons for wanting to go back (e.coast to midwest) is 1) girlfriend (nearly 3 years) whos serious and were tired of doing long distance (shes finishing masters) 2) of course more opp for careers geographically and 3) loved alma mater so much that i really want to go back knowing that i'd be happy.
definitely going to be tough trying to get all A's this semester!
good luck and thanks for the informative site.
Posted by: HK at April 22, 2004 08:11 PMi know you said not to bash your former school, but what if you don't like the people - ie all they care about is when to get hammered next - and wanting a more competitive environment? is that a legit reason among others?
Posted by: alee at April 22, 2004 11:19 PMWanting a more competitive environment is. Bashing the drunks at your current school is not! Don't even mention them.
Posted by: JCA at April 22, 2004 11:51 PMI transferred to a tier 1 from a tier 4 last August. I was exactly on the top 10% mark at my last school. My personal statement emphasized my wife's career move to the transfer city, but I hedged with "my strong desire" to be a part of the school's _____ program. BS. My letters of rec. definitely sealed it for me. I got one from a former employer (CEO of the company) and one from a 1L professor that was very complimentary and went beyond the typical "smart, hardworking" platitudes. Bottom line, make good grades and seek out a prof. ahead of time and try to build a relationship.
P.S.
New school is pretty much the same, albeit much more prestigious. My grades actually went up with supposedly stiffer competition. Go figure.
Two students in my class transferred out of our lowly Tier 4 school (and we're not at the top of Tier 4, either) to BC and Cornell, respectively. They were both in the top 10 of course (and possibly the top 4) but it certainly can be done.
Posted by: Erik Hammarlund at April 26, 2004 02:44 PMI enjoyed these posts, and wish they had been around when I was trying to transfer. I was around the top 10%, Law Review, at a top 25. I applied to three schools that tended to take a lot of transfers and were much closer to my desired job market (and got into two of these). I was nervous about losing my 1L grades and Law Review, but got both of these back after Fall Semester and then some. I'm just outside the top 10 students in my class at the moment. This may or may not be the case for others, but it seems to be close to the norm for the other transfers I know so far - at least GPA-wise. The only real handicap is that you lose whatever 1L bonding you may have had. Plus, personally, as a 2L I have been a lot less gung ho about pursuing school social events. I did end up getting two decent summer job offers, but I have to say that some firms do look at transfers skeptically since you are starting your new school grades from scratch and may be a less certain bet. I had two firms tell me that explicitly. Well, that's all for now. Good luck!
Posted by: David at May 2, 2004 12:52 AMI need to switch coasts in a big way, so I'm going to try to transfer this summer. I am dying to know some crucial details, though. How do I delete my old letters of recommendation from LSDAS? Do I really need to request my undergrad college to send sealed transcripts again? Wasn't that all a part of the LSDAS file? I am feeling the time crunch, now, since the deadlines are July 1st, but I won't know if I made top 10% rank or law review before June 15th...I guess I'll just plan to apply to the biggies and the lateral-moves, no matter what.
This blog has been such a pleasure to read, by the way. Thank you so much for your candid, informative, and just plain entertaining commentary! I'm now psyched to tackle this personal statement!
Posted by: Melanie at May 17, 2004 11:11 PMIs it bad to go into my first year thinking I want to transfer? I am currently enrolled at a tier 3 school, but I plan on moving up at least to tier 2. I am setting the bar very high for myself to achieve great things my first year. I just hope that becomes a reality.
Thanks for this blog. There isn't a lot of good rescources out there for transfer discussion.
Posted by: Joe Flanders at July 30, 2004 08:50 AMWhat if a big part of the reason I want to transfer is that I can't stand the administration at my current school (lack of character and integrity)? Should this honesty be avoided? If so why?
Posted by: name les at September 24, 2004 03:40 PM