I suppose I should say something about the new law school rankings, as everyone else seems to find them a propos of something or other.
Everyone rubbernecks when the rankings come out. As someone who's been accused of being unduly obsessed with status, I now make an effort to avoid them in case the accusations are true. But when I saw that link I looked, just like you did. Admit it. Could we really avoid looking? And, law students past and present, could you truly deny that the first thing you did was to find your school on the grid?
Glorfindel suggests that the reduction of the law school gestalt to a sequential prioritization of schools is a slippery slope towards actual evil. Waddling Thunder, the student blawgers' unofficial Defender of the Corporate Faith, can respond to this better than I. But I will say that from my own perspective, an increase in opportunity is never an inherently bad thing. And to me, that's perhaps the single most valuable thing a higher-ranked school provides.
Glorf posits that people attend highly-ranked schools primarily because they offer better-paid options after graduation, as though the main motivators for choosing a law school are such hollow and meaningless things as money and fancy firm business cards. I can't help but disagree. My post-graduation dream job pays unremarkably, and my academic record is such that I'm unlikely to land in a position of notable prestige. Yet coming from a single-digit school on the USNWR grid is inestimably helpful if I intend to pursue the gig with any seriousness. Being here isn't just about being seduced by high salaries; it's about having choices. I've been surprised, since transferring here, at the number of people who have no intention of going BIGLAW. What's important is that they can, should they ever desire or need to. It's just *one* of their options.
The dirty secret that no one's allowed to acknowledge outright without being branded elitist is that options really do decrease as you move down the scale. Whether this is a cause or effect of the rankings is debatable; I'm in the effect camp, hence the following screed.
Hardworking, motivated, and damn lucky people are everywhere and will almost always get their due, but let's be frank here: the worst aspect of the rankings is not that the people on top are lured to sell their souls to Mammon, but that the people further down the list get screwed. My ex-law school slipped in the rankings again this year, and that's going to hurt people studying there, and that's wrong. Jockeying with those silly numbers we all revile will actively diminish the payoff for the people still working their asses off at solid yet unfancy schools. But let them eat cake, right? More important that we posh types should refrain from selling out.
I can't agree with that. And that's my problem with the rankings. The real issue isn't who feels the most insulted by the fact that [school] has dropped out of the top ten, or whose faculty publishes the most prolifically, or that students will be drawn to high-ranked schools by their fancy numbers and fall prey to firms doing the Dance of the Six Figures. The real issue is that, thanks to a silly system of categorizing disparate experiences, talented people will reap less than what should -- and elsewhere would -- be the full fruits of their labor. And it bothers me, even with all the hemming and hawing about how rankings are crap (which they are), that people still construe them at a macro level as a proxy for merit.
Let's pick a story and stick to it. If we say the rankings are meaningless, then let's not grant them meaning. Or let's turn them into something meaningful. Professor Bernstein has the right idea (and I'm not just saying that because of where I go to law school): introduce competition into the rankings game! Let's get some other major publications opining about who's on first. Even if the usual suspects all stay within a few standard deviations of their USNWR berths, their reasons for being there will be independently verifiable.
Personally, I think there should be a score for student-body competitiveness. But that's just me.
thus spake /jca @ April 2, 2004 10:12 PMI don't know, I think if you're in the top of your class, your options are open most anywhere. For example, while I am in the dead middle of my class at Michigan (#7 on the list) a friend of mine is #1 in her class at Ohio State (#42 on the list). Guess who got the better job offers? Guess who is clerking? Guess who got a full ride scholarship to law school and is graduating without any debt?
Not me. So while the plural of anecdote is not data, I'd venture to guess that being in the top of your class can make up for being at a lower ranked law school.
Posted by: Greg at April 3, 2004 04:58 AMI agree. Top-ranked students at schools with lower USNWR numbers do tend to escape some of the effects of the USNWR ranking, since even the most status-driven employers still acknowledge that outperforming everyone else in one's class is a sign of talent.
And of course, the range of opportunities offered by schools within a few USNWR points of each other tends not to vary hugely. Yet despite both of these truisms, people do still transfer "up" the scale every year. And I'd argue that their reasons for doing so extend beyond the mere desire for increased prestige on the resume.
I agree with almost all of what you've said here. Choosing a higher-ranked school is not thoughtless when it preserves your options.
But the "dirty secret" isn't that your options are more limited when you attend a school with (significantly) lower rankings. This might be dirty, but it's also common knowledge. In no sense is it a secret. And not only is everyone allowed to acknowledge this publicly, everyone actually does.
I'm not questioning the existence of a law school hierarchy. My point is that there are plenty of pre-law students out there who allow USNews to choose their school for them, and thus avoid their responsibility to think about why they're doing what they're doing.
I'm not talking about the student admitted to Columbia and to a USNews tier 3 who chooses Columbia because she wants to preserve her options. That's too thoughtful. I'm talking about someone admitted to Chicago and Stanford who chooses Stanford solely because USNews ranks it a few places higher.
This student is thoughtless. This thoughtlessness is bad not because the student might end up working for Biglaw, but because the student might end up working for Biglaw for no other reason than that it's prestigious, or that it pays a lot of money.
Working for Biglaw isn't evil; doing it thoughtlessly, under certain circumstances, can be. But so can working for the government. Or for a "public interest" firm. It's the acting without thinking that I'm worried about.
Posted by: Carey at April 3, 2004 02:07 PMBut the "dirty secret" isn't that your options are more limited when you attend a school with (significantly) lower rankings. This might be dirty, but it's also common knowledge. In no sense is it a secret. And not only is everyone allowed to acknowledge this publicly, everyone actually does.
Not by my definition of "everyone." I think outside the upper echelons, schools and their students go to desperate lengths to paper over this Common Knowledge. Did you go to admitted students' day at your safety school? Did everyone there publicly acknowledge that you'd have a better shot at [X career path] coming from Michigan instead? Or rather, did they emphasize the range of opportunities that they *did* offer there, such that they'd take umbrage if you raised your hand and commented that a higher-ranked school would serve you better?
It's hardly a secret in the sense that no one is aware of this at all; but I think that most of the law school industry lacks your candor, and needs to in the interest of self-preservation.
Being #1 at Ohio (#43) might be superior to middle-of-the-pack at a top-10. But Ohio's still first tier. I know someone who graduated #1 from a tier 4 LS, and can't get a job outside of the school's region.
Posted by: rex at April 3, 2004 05:14 PMJust as a nitpicky point--your dream job is not a career.
And as another nitpicky point, nothing comes free. Going to school here expands one sort of options for me, but it shrinks another sort as well. Choice of school is as much about choice of options as anything else; I think that you shouldn't go to any graduate school until you know yourself well enough to know what options you want.
Posted by: Heidi at April 3, 2004 07:31 PMNice post. I think the ranking insanity in this country actually begins with the first grade we get in elementary school. Public school ingrains the "ranked" sense of value in us- we are only worth as much as our class standing. Shame on public education for both starting and perpetuating this myth.
And Greg,
How do you know you are dead middle of your class at Michigan, since Michigan does not release any student rankings until you graduate? Maybe you have access to some records that I don't? :)
Posted by: Jordan at April 4, 2004 08:44 AMWhen it comes to job offers, ranking is only one factor. Geographic location makes a big difference in keeping one's options open. I went to Cornell which tends to hover around 11-15 in the rankings (though to the less knowledgeable, Cornell sounds more prestigious than it is because people often impute the undergrad's considerably higher and Ivy League reputation to the law school) But because of Cornell's remote location in Ithaca, students don't have the same opportunities as their peers at schools in larger cities to take on internships at government agencies, public interest groups, courts or for legislative bodies -- or even to work part time at law firms. Many of my classmates in the lower ranks of the class at Cornell had significant difficulty finding jobs when I graduated (circa 1988). However, from my experience working in DC for the past 15 years, I have seen students from so-called "lower ranked" schools obtain internships or work study at agencies, public defenders offices, etc...and leverage those internships into post-law school employment (and in turn leverage that experience into positions - and eventually partnership at large firms. Geographic location is definitely a factor to consider in choosing a school - and one that is more important than ranking in my view.
Posted by: Carolyn Elefant at April 6, 2004 01:17 AMRe your "dream job" clerking:
The year I spent clerking for a Fifth Circuit judge was the best job I've ever had, hands down. My writing and critical analysis were substantially polished, and throughout my subsequent practice I've felt like I've benefited from the insights and the practical knowledge I gained about both trial and appellate courts. I was superbly prepared for the pro bono criminal appeals I handled after I went into the private sector, and indeed, got opportunities to make a bigger difference on meaningful pro bono cases precisely because of my clerkship connections. And I got to meet and work for a year with some of the most remarkable and admirable people (judges and co-clerks) that I've ever met.
When I have time to kill in an unfamiliar law library, I can walk over to a certain span of Federal Reporter (2d Series), pull out any random volume, flip to the front index of case names, and find some of my (unattributed) prose always good for the ego.
Although as Heidi points out above it's a one- or two-year job at most, clerking definitely broadens your career options, whether you've come from a top-tier law school or not. "Big law" generally also will give you a year's credit for salary purposes, meaning you start not at starting salary rates, but second-year associate rates which cuts the financial opportunity costs if you choose to go that route. Some state-court clerkships are pretty skimpy on pay, but the federal court clerkship salaries are certainly livable. And you are performing a public service, albeit one considerably less martyric than, say, spending a year in the Peace Corps.
So you're not the only one for whom clerking is a "dream job." Go for it!
Posted by: Beldar at April 7, 2004 10:26 PM"Being #1 at Ohio (#43) might be superior to middle-of-the-pack at a top-10. But Ohio's still first tier. I know someone who graduated #1 from a tier 4 LS, and can't get a job outside of the school's region."
Well, we had a paralegal at my firm who came up from the non-lawyer claims adjusters at our favored client insurance company. She had been editor of the law review at Texas Weslyan, a 4th tier. Eventually she got a job in subrogation and then moved on, but her opportunities were a lot less than the middle of the class SMU grads who were floating around.
None of them took a non-law job as a shot at transferring to a paralegal position in order to pick up a staff attorney position that paid less than paralegal pay.
She was an excellent lawyer, btw. I think much better of the school for having met her.
Posted by: Anon Visitor at August 8, 2004 09:21 AMIf you go to a third or fourth tier law school, go ahead and end the suffering now. There are no jobs for losers like us. Find a different calling. I am 3.5 months from graduation and I don't have shit lined up. I have contacts at Chadbourne and Parke and Buchanan Ingersoll and they are powerless to help me in their prestige obsessed factories. The only possible jobs might be PI, if you are into suing everyone into oblivion and doing it for the rest of your life.
Have a nice day.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 29, 2004 05:02 PMI don't know what third or fourth tier law school you go to, but almost every 3L in my third tier law school has a job lined up - albiet, mostly regionally.
Why is everybody on this board obsessed with Big Law? My father is a human rescources director for a Fortune 500 company, and he hires lawyers from all over the nation. I can assure you that he has no idea what the USNEWS rankings are, and I am sure he doesn't care.
Posted by: Anon Visitor at October 10, 2004 06:45 PM