Lately I've been receiving an unusual amount of blog email, as the spring semester grows long and restless 1Ls begin to ponder their transfer options. (Don't worry, emailers, your identities are safe.)
So here's the first post in what will hopefully become a small series on transferring law schools: an amalgamation of actual questions I've been asked in email, actual responses of mine, other questions that I've been asked outside of email or asked myself, and potentially a few rants. I promise to try and keep those last to a minimum.
And if you've got a question of your own, feel free to email me at suasponte_org NOSPAM at SPAM-ME-NOT yahoo I MEAN IT dot com. Or just leave a comment. :)
I'm thinking about transferring law schools. Should I? Why did you do it?
I arrived at law school intending to transfer, for no good reason apart from the fact that I'd already decided it would be so. I wouldn't recommend this approach: there's a lot of built-in misery in going somewhere solely with the intent to wind up somewhere else, particularly if you don't know where else you want to be or why.
Here's the approach I'd recommend now. Look at where you are, look at how you're doing there, and make two lists: reasons to leave, and reasons to stay/things you'll lose by leaving. Then look at your potential range of destinations, and for each one list out the advantages (and disadvantages) to being there compared to your current school. (I am a compulsive listmaker; YMMV.)
For example: if you've got a solid GPA or class rank in your current school, have made it onto moot court team, feel that you've got a good shot at law review or a topical journal you love, etc. these are all reasons to stay. But if you're dissatisfied with the culture of your school, class size, administration, and so forth, these are also factors to consider.
Most law schools zero out the first-year transcripts of transfer students. No schedule, no grades, no class rank is preserved. My current official transcript doesn't even mention the courses I took last year, specifying only "Credit Awarded for Academic Work Done At [School]. Hours: 40. Grade: P." Given my 1L experience, I was perfectly thrilled to have the entire year reduced to one pass-fail line item on the 'script. But if you did better than I did as a 1L -- and you probably did, if you're seriously considering transferring -- losing your hard-earned grades and high class rank may bother you. Keep this in mind. Do you want to trade them in for blanks?
Be sure to research opportunities for things like journals and moot court at your potential transfer school(s). Can you write on to a journal? What is the school's policy of accepting transfer students on to law review? Is there space for you on the moot court team, and if not, can you still work on the board or coaching organizations if you wish? And if you can't get involved in these things at your new school to the extent that you could if you stayed at your first-year school, is it still worth transferring for other (e.g. location, cultural, career opportunity, etc.) purposes?
Don't forget that you may be making the decision for more than one person. If you're in a relationship, are married, have children, need to live near family, or otherwise have responsibilities that keep you in a particular place, give these appropriate consideration. Make the decision that's best for you given a particular value of you. Disregard hypotheticals (e.g. my husband's ill-fated question, "Well, what would you do if you were single?"). It doesn't matter what you'd do in an imaginary frictionless environment; the question is what you should do given your actual situation.
Will transferring law schools hurt my job prospects?
I doubt it. There is a strong presumption among recruiters that transfer students were at or near the top of their 1L classes, which translates into immediate if conditional respect when you walk into the on-campus interview. I felt I was received at least as well as, if not better than, my "native" fellow 2Ls during fall interviews. Of course, the first question any interviewer will ask is why you transferred. If you can give them a reasonable, thoughtful answer (N.B. "this is a much better school" does not count, regardless of how true a motivator it was for you) then you should be fine. Just remember Rule #1: speak no ill of your ex-law school.
(Note that you will need to bring a copy of your 1L transcript to on-campus interviews, as your new law school will not provide it to recruiters but they'll still want to discuss it. So they *will* see your 1L grades; they'll just see them as a conversation piece rather than a feature of your permanent record.)
How much transferring will help your job prospects depends on the degree of disparity between your origin and destination schools (particularly if one is known for a certain specialty). Two of my fellow transfer students started out at nearby top-25 law schools, where they probably had quite similar on-campus recruiting options, at least in terms of law firms. In fact, more than half of our transfer class came from schools within the USNWR first tier. The firm where I'll be working this summer recruits at my former law school; I believe this is true for several of my fellow transfers as well. Were we more likely to be hired by these firms at our current law school than our ex-law schools? Hard to say. But for the people who transferred from lower-tier schools (see also my rankings rant), the increase in opportunity was appreciable.
For me, the main career advantages of transferring were peripheral to law firm recruiting. My new law school places strongly into federal clerkships, government, and legal academia, all things that I would love to try. Certainly nothing prevented me from pursuing these options at my ex-law school, but here I have a lot more doors already open. This is particularly important to me since I don't have my heart set on a particular career path, but want to experiment as much as I can.
The mere existence of a higher USNWR ranking, however, doesn't necessarily mean that the range of potential career opportunities offered at that school will markedly exceed those available at a lower-ranked school. Be sure to consider this. Research your options. Make sure you know what you're getting, and make sure it's what you want.
Forthcoming: the numbers game, improving from fall to spring semester, letters of recommendation and more.
thus spake /jca @ April 5, 2004 05:04 PMjca thanks for posting this and an email where to reach you, as there are some of us for whom the dings are coming fast and furious and have to decide between less than first choice schools (like your former school, as well as GW for me).
Also if you get a chance, maybe comment on regional issues involved in going to a certain school at a certain rank-- i.e. the ability to get jobs outside the region a particular school is in etc.
thanks again and if you have time ill probably be dropping you a line in the next few days :)
Posted by: eric at April 5, 2004 06:19 PMThanks JCA!
First let me thank you for all your insights (rantings included).
I started law school at 30. I had a baby at 28 and quit my travel-intensive job as a Product Manager for Sun. Was a devoted stay home mom for 2 years and decided to pursue the family calling -- my dad is a lawyer, his 5 brothers and 5 sisters (all from the same mom) are lawyers, my grandfather is lawyer --- what can I say?! I couldn't fight it for long!
But I digress.
Your blog connects me to the full-time day experience.
As a wife, mom, house/family-CEO I attend an Evening program at an accredited ABA school in the Bay Area -- but I do miss out on many opportunties even though I have a very supportive, loving family.
So it works vicarously living it through you esp. at such a dream school.
I want to transfer within the bay area for compelling family relations. A sick dad, a husband with a fairly long commute, a small child. I want to transfer from GGU to Santa Clara- my grades were fairly decent last sem;hopefully better this sem.
In the personal statement- Should I address how the new law school will help me achieve my academic goals better because it will be more central to my life?
Any assistance you can provide would be great. Thanks, JD.
Posted by: JD at April 6, 2004 01:45 AMa certain karma-booster...
thanks JCA!
that made no sense...
your karma is what i was referring to.
ugh, 2nd semester brain mush time. sorry.
Sorry, but from which law school did you transfer from and to which school did you transfer??
Posted by: iysam @1 at April 6, 2004 03:02 PMThank You JCA! I'm a 1L with dreams of transferring as well. There's so little information available on transferring that I'm thrilled to death to read anything about it! (personal insight is invaluable too!). I'm anxiously awaiting further postings.
For those of you contemplating starting 1L somewhere other than where you'd like to graduate from - make your decision carefully. I detest my current law school and felt that way even before the first day. It is very hard to handle the pressures of 1L and drag myself to someplace that I can't stand everyday. It has been a tough year.
It has however been a huge motivator - wanting to transfer that is. Everytime I get tired and want to stop studying I think about being able to go to school somewhere else and I'm able to push on.
I did well first semester and am gearing up to do as well or better second semester. The pressure I've put on myself is intense though...
Now that it's almost over - I'm happy that I made the choice that I did. Even if I don't get to transfer I'll be ranked high in my class which will be helpful even though I don't like my law school. My desire to transfer played a huge role in staying focused.
But for now the dream of transferring is still alive. Please God Please! Let me out!!!!
Thanks again JCA.
Posted by: Ally in Sunny Cally at April 6, 2004 04:43 PMHi JCA,
Thanks for all the info! I'm thinking of transferring out of your old law school so I appreciate all of your wisdom on the subject. Specifically, I wanted to ask if you applied to other schools (specifically the two higher ranked local ones near your old law school) and if you have any advice for those two specific schools (email me? leongcpa@yahoo.com). Thanks! Also, I wanted to ask for advice on how to get on to the Moot Court team and Law Review as I'm applying for Moot Court now and I'm going to be doing the write-on competition after finals. Thanks again!
Posted by: AlfDaBruin at April 6, 2004 09:42 PMyeah im kinda curious about the 2 higher ranked schools (well only 1 is higher than where you are now) near your old school too. this all gets so complicated. i like gw, but the girlfriend has a good internship in the bay area, so that other school would be good for that. or maybe i could still get into ucla and then that would be an interesting compromise.
Posted by: eric at April 7, 2004 07:50 AMT-FAQ part 2 is now posted.
Posted by: JCA at April 9, 2004 10:32 PM"'this is a much better school' does not count"
Put like that, sure. But the same point can be made in an acceptable way. I told several interviewers that I transferred because my new school placed better in my target market, and, in fact, I was hired by a firm that doesn't even recruit at my 1L school.
Posted by: Rat at April 25, 2004 11:12 PMI'm currently in University of Illinois College of Law (25/Top 25) and I would like to transfer to Northwestern University Law School (13/Top 25) for many great reasons. However, since it is technically "transferring up", though w/in first tier, I'm wondering if anyone knows whether that poses as a big obstacle?
*My GPA for 1L places me w/in the top 10%.
Thanks!
Posted by: Beibei at April 30, 2004 04:00 PMTo the above poster, several people transferred to Northwestern/U. Chicago last year. Ask around, and you can find more info. It is doable.
I also thought I would add, regarding professors, that I am currently getting some letters of recommendations for clerkships from professors at my 1L school - they are only too happy to help, and it's going smoothly so far.
Posted by: David at May 2, 2004 12:59 AMI was wondering how hard it is to transfer from 4th tier to say 2nd or beyond...I know you must be highly ranked...say top 5%..but I was wondering how hard it really is...is it even possible...??? I would appreicate any feedback..thanks everyone
Posted by: Scott at May 4, 2004 08:50 PMI am about to begin as a 1L at U of Florida (1st tier) in the fall, but I already have hopes of transferring to Washington University in St. Louis (top 25). Have any of you heard of people who have transferred to Wash U law-or from a plain old 1st tier to top 25 school? There is so little info!!! on what I need my class rank to be, etc.....
I am about to begin as a 1L at U of Florida (1st tier) in the fall, but I already have hopes of transferring to Washington University in St. Louis (top 25). Have any of you heard of people who have transferred to Wash U law-or from a plain old 1st tier to top 25 school? There is so little info!!! on what I need my class rank to be, etc.....